Comments on Ginge Talks The Footy: An Open Letter to the Portland Timbers FO

Yeah and HDC's pitch was a fucking mess after the ...

2009-12-25T20:27:54.782-06:00

Yeah and HDC's pitch was a fucking mess after the Xgames.

People still are not addressing two concerns:
1. Gridiron lines are easier to scrub off turf than grass.
2. The field is BELOW the water table.

@Anonymous I'm "crying like a baby" because I hav...

2009-12-24T16:00:53.960-06:00

@Anonymous

I'm "crying like a baby" because I have some of those little black rubber pellets in my eye.

I get it, grass requires some upkeep that a plastic carpet doesn't (though the plastic carpet has other costs). But c'mon. To say PGE get's NO sunlight is flat wrong. Is it limited during certain parts of the year, yes? But grass will grow. And I'm sure there are grasses that do well in limited light. To say we would need to take such extreme measures as "grow lights" strikes me as fairly ridiculous.

I would far prefer a somewhat crappy, chewed up field for a few games, than turf period (though I'm not convinced that there aren't ways to manage the multiple uses without the field being torn up -- Home Depot center, for example, manages to accommodate two MLS teams while hosting things like motocross during the season).

Oregon grows the best grass in the world...I'm sur...

2009-12-24T15:03:39.927-06:00

Oregon grows the best grass in the world...I'm sure we could find someone to cultivate kind grass year-round.

@rsw You're so wrong it's not even funny. So you'...

2009-12-24T14:51:37.710-06:00

@rsw

You're so wrong it's not even funny. So you're telling me the Dynamo pitch in the playoffs was a fluke? It was destroyed and a total embarrassment. They just share their pitch with 1 football team.

I would like nothing more than to have grass...but I also understand science and see PGE on a daily basis. There is very little light and the pitch is below the water table. Science says grass won't grow. Maybe you could install grow lights and figure out the water table thing, but at what cost? There isn't that much money right now. So deal with it and quit crying like a baby about it.

As a long-time, die-hard, Timbers fan, even though...

2009-12-24T12:26:49.661-06:00

As a long-time, die-hard, Timbers fan, even though I knew this decision was coming, I'm still extremely disappointed. I don't know why we keep talking about grass like it's impossible to grow in Portland -- grass grows everywhere, whether you want it to or not. This no sunlight ever reaching the field at PGE myth is pure bullsh*t -- ridiculous, and I can't believe how many people that I otherwise greatly respect keep regurgitating this non-sense.

Are there challenges with a multi-use facility? Of course. Are we talking about anything that can't be overcome at PGE? Absolutely not. We're talking about a handful of high-school and college football games that only run into the MLS schedule at the end -- in the fall.

Timbers fans need to stop accepting these excuses at face value. Turf is horrible for the sport, and is just another thing that keeps MLS a second-class league.

I'm a big fan of Merrit Paulson. He brought us the focused, passionate sort of ownership that we needed to make MLS happen. I like the renovation plans otherwise. But I strongly disagree with his assertions about turf vs grass. And it doesn't make me any less of supporter because I disagree with him on this point. In fact, I think you could say it's exactly what a true supporter should be doing. Holding his feet to the fire.

I don't think enough people are realizing what a big issue this really is.

Once agin, I repeat Daaaave's point of 'PROVE that...

2009-12-24T11:50:48.090-06:00

Once agin, I repeat Daaaave's point of 'PROVE that turf significantly increases injuries or retract.' Look for scientific evidence that grass is safer; it's not there!

If you think the ball plays differently on it, that's one thing, but to say injuries are more likely is just superstition. Get over it.

As others have pinted out, too, trying to grow grass at TFC and PDX are two differnt things. Portland would basically have to resod the entire field after every time it's used. If you have a few million dollars a year to spend on grass, go for it.

Solving those issues costs way more money than eit...

2009-12-24T08:32:57.837-06:00

Solving those issues costs way more money than either the club or city can spend. Being below the water table is a unique problem in itself. Also, they share the field with a gridiron football team. It's easier to remove those lines from turf than grass. And I'll take no lines on turf over lines on grass any day.

"Why adversely effect your team's play..." That s...

2009-12-24T01:22:21.206-06:00

"Why adversely effect your team's play..."

That should be "affect" not "effect." Whether or not you're actually sending this, spelling errors like that hurt my brain.

I completely agree with your sentiment. There HAS to be a way around being forced into an artificial turf field. I won't accept responses along the lines of "won't get enough sunlight" or "it rains too much" as being legitimate. Every other TFC blogger has brought up the legitimate point that clubs in Scandinavia, Russia, and other northern climates find ways around their weather issues. This is no different, and should even be easier to deal with than what those clubs have had to deal with. At least it doesn't snow...

Rick, just because a team, or several teams ignore...

2009-12-23T19:42:09.542-06:00

Rick, just because a team, or several teams ignore scientific studies due to "worry" does not mean that the worry is justified.

Peer-reviewed scientific studies in Sweden show no causual relationship between injuries and Turf/Grass.

Facts matter, and today Ginge has none. I still love you!

I would like to add that PGE should be a lake. It...

2009-12-23T17:15:18.519-06:00

I would like to add that PGE should be a lake. It is in a bowl and below the water table. Opening up the area for grass will just create a bog. And the last thing I want is to be ashamed of the quality of our pitch again.

The usage of the facility for football would cause this pitch to become a soggy mess in September and October.

Did I mention it doesn't get enough light...

There is a reason, then civic stadium, was the first Minor League baseball team to have turf put in in the late 60's. I love "Piggy" and love the location. So I can see this as a good compromise.

That said, we did put a man on the moon. We can surely could get grass in there. :)

~n

Here is a nice quote from the article regardint th...

2009-12-23T16:08:04.071-06:00

Here is a nice quote from the article regardint the stadium renovations:

"The renovation details come with a concession: Though hard-core soccer fans wanted the Timbers' re-vamped home to include grass, the playing surface almost certainly will be artificial turf, Paulson said.

The stadium's reality is rainy springs and falls, and the need to accommodate the Portland State football team, high school games and other events. Crisscrossing field lines for football and soccer when those seasons overlap would be far more difficult to manage on grass, Paulson said."

First off, Jason, if you have no problem with Fiel...

2009-12-23T14:42:53.052-06:00

First off, Jason, if you have no problem with Field Turf you have obviously never played on it or ever watched a game being played on it. It severely affects the quality of the game.
Secondly Daaaaave, I know just from being an RSL fan that Field Turf can contribute to medical issues, especially with knees. This past season RSL defender Jamison Olave sat out the game in New York just because the team didn't want to chance aggravating his knees. Also Carey Talley had chronic knee issues stemming partly from playing on the Rice-Eccles Stadium turf.
Fact is nobody wants to play on the stuff and I agree with Zach completely.

Dear Merritt Paulsonm, Zach doesn't speak for me ...

2009-12-23T14:21:45.526-06:00

Dear Merritt Paulsonm,

Zach doesn't speak for me sir. I have no issue with Field Turf.

Respectfully Yours,

Jason Gatties

"...surely you've seen how FieldTurf ...leads to m...

2009-12-23T12:24:47.598-06:00

"...surely you've seen how FieldTurf ...leads to medical problems for players."

Post proof or retract.

Zach, PGE Park is sunk into the ground about 2-3 ...

2009-12-23T11:26:17.814-06:00

Zach,

PGE Park is sunk into the ground about 2-3 stories. They also share the field with PSU football. This creates 2 major problems.

There is very little sun that actually hits the field for any extended period of time. If you combine that with the climate you end up with scenario 2. Did you see Houston's field in their playoff game? It looked like it had been chewed up and spit out. It would be nice compared to PGE's field after a PSU football game in Portland's climate.

Look...nobody wants Fieldturf. Unfortunately it's the only thing that can be used at this point.